Episode 60
"The Challenges and Opportunities Facing New Ordinands Called to Serve the Church in a Changing World”
Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.
Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.
Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”
To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.
https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/
In episode 060 of To Be Encouraged, the podcast explores the challenges and opportunities faced by new ordinands in the current socio-political and technological climate. The guests are incoming Deacon Rev. Matt Sherrill who serves on the Pastoral Staff of The Carmel UMC in Carmel, Indiana and Rev. Denise Robinson the Lead Pastor of the Irvington UMC in Indianapolis IN.
This episode is part two of a two part episode with part one available here. https://tobeencouraged.com/episode/059
In this episode the ordinands discuss the importance of staying focused on the mission of loving God and loving others, despite differences in opinion and theological beliefs.
Rev. Matt Sherrill expresses his passion for rethinking the way confirmation is done to better disciple young people and is encouraged by the open-mindedness and willingness to learn and grow exhibited by students. He believes that students are the church now and sees hope in the powerful things they are doing, despite the disaffiliation of numerous churches.
Bishop Julius C. Trimble emphasizes that God loves all people and that most of our limitations are self-imposed. He encourages congregations to embrace the Breakthrough Prayer movement and focus on making disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world.
Rev. Denise Robinson shares her experience at Irvington UMC, an inner-city church committed to engaging with and helping the community. Despite challenges related to an older congregation and the dangers of the surrounding neighborhood, the church has established connections with the community through various programs and events.
Rev. Dr. Brad Miller asks Denise about her approach to dealing with challenges, particularly in the context of differing theological beliefs or hot button issues that arise within the church. She emphasizes the importance of not being diverted from the mission of loving God and loving others and finding different ways to share the love of Christ with the community.
Rev. Matt Sherrill explores the challenges faced by youth ministries in the current technological climate, as well as the importance of building relationships with people who are different than ourselves to change perspectives and break down stereotypes.
Takeaway points include the importance of staying focused on the mission of loving God and loving others, embracing Breakthrough Prayer, being church in profound ways in the world, and working to bring about social change. The podcast encourages church leaders to have conversations with colleagues from different places to learn from each other, create new opportunities, and celebrate the diversity of the United Methodist Church.
Time Stamps:
[00:02:32] "IUMC faces challenges in serving inner-city community"
[00:05:28] "Overcoming Limitations and Embracing Breakthrough Prayer"
[00:12:20] "Bishop Urges Focus on Gospel Mission"
[00:14:37] "Students embrace awareness and take breaks"
[00:17:55] "Pastor urges young people to hear message of God's unconditional love"
[00:23:18] "Prayer and Humility: God's Promise of Healing"
[00:25:03] "Special Guests Offer Encouragement on Podcast"
This episode is part two of a two part episode with part one available here. https://tobeencouraged.com/episode/059
Transcript
With Denise and Matt and Bishop, you are being
Speaker:commissioned and committed to ministry. You're already in ministry. You're going to continue to serve
Speaker:in your places here in
Speaker:Carmel, Indiana, and Indianapolis, Indiana. In your ministry
Speaker:settings. What are you looking
Speaker:forward to moving forward, as in your ordination, in serving
Speaker:maybe? What is something you kind of are hesitant about or maybe dread a little
Speaker:bit? Matt, start with you. What are you looking forward to? What do you kind
Speaker:of worry about?
Speaker:I've just enjoyed the whole process. I mean, getting to know other pastors.
Speaker:So to me, just continuing to connect with them in the conference
Speaker:is really exciting. I'm always just looking forward
Speaker:to kind of what's next in ministry with
Speaker:students, the things we're doing to disciple them,
Speaker:and particularly with confirmation, that's kind of a passion of
Speaker:mine is to kind of rethink how we do that.
Speaker:So just excited to see these young people continue
Speaker:to grow, to be mentored and then eventually to become
Speaker:mentors and disciple people themselves.
Speaker:I'm excited for the church and just what the
Speaker:future holds. I think that we have a great opportunity here just
Speaker:to establish ourselves, to have a clear identity
Speaker:in who we are as disciples and to have an impact
Speaker:on the world. Our job is pretty clear,
Speaker:and that's just to continue to preach Jesus. And what
Speaker:I'm worried about is just all
Speaker:the stuff kind of going on in our world, in our society.
Speaker:It is a challenge, a struggle, and how
Speaker:the church responds to that.
Speaker:Are we going to continue just to do what we've always done or are we
Speaker:going to be able to adapt and to meet the needs of
Speaker:people? Maybe they don't want to be at the church or in the church,
Speaker:so hopefully we can find ways
Speaker:to move forward and to reach people where they are
Speaker:and not always expecting them to come to us.
Speaker:But that's a huge challenge and it's going to take
Speaker:a lot of work. Pastor Denise,
Speaker:are your thoughts about what are you looking forward to? What excites you? What's jazzed
Speaker:you about moving forward and maybe some hesitancy you might
Speaker:have about some things? I'm looking forward to
Speaker:another year here at IUMC.
Speaker:I guess when I thought about going into ministry, I never thought that I'd
Speaker:be appointed to an inner city, kind of inner city Indianapolis
Speaker:church. Irvington is inside the beltway. It's a very diverse
Speaker:community, and being on the
Speaker:East Irvington Street corridor, there's a lot of need around
Speaker:our church, and it has presented its challenges,
Speaker:but at the same time, a lot of joy in the
Speaker:church. We've worked hard to make connections with
Speaker:a community where we've been lacking. We've got
Speaker:a food pantry now or a food closet. We've got a clothing closet.
Speaker:This evening we have an exercise class and a
Speaker:free community dinner, kind of a dinner church concept.
Speaker:And so I'll be getting ready for that at about 05:00 tonight.
Speaker:We've started a couple of Bible studies and we also
Speaker:have worked the next big thing is we've worked on
Speaker:the basement area of our church and we're opening it up to the community,
Speaker:calling it the commons. And we're looking at some
Speaker:open mic nights and some other forums for community events
Speaker:and ultimately another form of worship service
Speaker:down in the basement of the church too. We're on what's called an island.
Speaker:We're on the North Circle here. North of Washington Street.
Speaker:And so people just know us as the church on the
Speaker:North Circle. They don't really know us by name, but we're getting
Speaker:the reputation that when you need prayer, when you need help, when you
Speaker:need somebody to listen, go to that big church on the North Circle.
Speaker:And that's the reputation that we want to have,
Speaker:that we reach out to the community. But there's also where do we
Speaker:go from here, Irvington?
Speaker:We look at the news, and when you look at the east side of Indianapolis
Speaker:in the news, it's not always a safe
Speaker:neighborhood. And there are challenges,
Speaker:especially with an older congregation. How do we reach out and engage
Speaker:with our community when the
Speaker:community sometimes can present a danger?
Speaker:And those are things that we're constantly looking at because
Speaker:of the issues of alcoholism and drug abuse and
Speaker:mental health issues, poverty and so forth
Speaker:that exist around our church.
Speaker:So that's the challenge. Sure.
Speaker:Bishop, what do you see as the opportunities I guess
Speaker:I would have put it this way, Bishop. You see the
Speaker:little bit of the broader picture, the bigger picture, not only in the United Methodist
Speaker:Church in Indiana, but beyond that, even. What do you see as the opportunities
Speaker:for a new elder and a new deacon moving
Speaker:forward in their ministry context and beyond?
Speaker:What opportunities are before them? What can God do through
Speaker:these folks? I think most of
Speaker:our limitations are self imposed.
Speaker:I think one of the things God can do is this
Speaker:is picking up across the conference right now,
Speaker:is Breakthrough Prayer. I would invite both
Speaker:Matt and Denise to, if your congregations have
Speaker:not embraced the whole Breakthrough Prayer movement,
Speaker:to think about how do we pray our way to what God wants us to
Speaker:do next. I did my d men project.
Speaker:Brad, I was just thinking I'm looking at Matt and Denise.
Speaker:Years ago, her D Men project was on creating
Speaker:partnerships between city and suburban churches for
Speaker:missional outreach. And I served at
Speaker:the time, I was serving an inner city church,
Speaker:and we had a partnership with three there were three congregations,
Speaker:all United Methodists, in different parts of Cleveland,
Speaker:Ohio, where one was outside of the city.
Speaker:In a suburb, but we all had similar demographics
Speaker:in terms of the
Speaker:base of our congregations were older, but we had vibrant youth
Speaker:ministries and other activities, but we lived in different kind of
Speaker:different worlds in the same city. So the three
Speaker:pastors got together and decided what are the ways in which we
Speaker:can have both conversation and experience community
Speaker:together? Because a lot of times what we do, we would
Speaker:do mission projects, we would leave the city and go
Speaker:out somewhere else or go
Speaker:to the kind of known mission to the campsites and
Speaker:do things. And we decided there are conversations and
Speaker:opportunities for doing things together. So I'm just looking at Matt and
Speaker:Denise. I'm not suggesting that you need to do this, you may already be doing
Speaker:something. But sometimes we can have conversations with
Speaker:our colleagues who are in different places and say, hey, is there a time
Speaker:that we might be able to come together and learn from each other? We're in
Speaker:the same denomination, we're basically in the same
Speaker:district or same geographical
Speaker:area. You're in two different districts. But Carmel
Speaker:is just an extension of Indianapolis in one sense.
Speaker:There are a lot of opportunities, I think, that we can take advantage of
Speaker:and some of the work. I happen to know both that Pastor
Speaker:Denise and Pastor Matt in their locals, they're already doing great
Speaker:things. So I celebrate that. One of
Speaker:the things I do say is that currently right now
Speaker:there is in our denomination a shifting or a
Speaker:sifting and shifting because there's significant
Speaker:number of churches that are disaffiliating,
Speaker:which leaves still majority
Speaker:of our congregations that are remaining. United method
Speaker:is focusing on making disciples of Jesus Christ for
Speaker:the transformation of the world. And I think this is an opportunity
Speaker:to lean into what God has for us next. Matt kind of mentioned
Speaker:it as well. What does it mean for us not to just
Speaker:go to church and try to get people to church, but what does it mean
Speaker:for us in this season to be the church for people who
Speaker:maybe they've been experiencing us online, but they're not going
Speaker:to be coming to our church and we can do
Speaker:ministry, feed them, have meals. They may never join
Speaker:our church. So how might we redefine
Speaker:ourselves or ask God to use us in a way in
Speaker:which we can be church more in more profound ways
Speaker:in the world?
Speaker:We need not become formed to the world, but we do need to
Speaker:we need to be sufficiently in the world.
Speaker:I'm thinking of this book, John Wesley for the 21st Century,
Speaker:where it says we have to recognize that Wesley
Speaker:was both a social and political and ecclesiastical conservative.
Speaker:He encouraged Methodists to embrace the general rules
Speaker:and he called them to resist evil and do good.
Speaker:Those are open ended statements. There are no limits on
Speaker:resisting evil and doing good.
Speaker:Therefore here's something. Therefore, when we notice
Speaker:that we are providing food for larger numbers of people each week
Speaker:at Food Bank, we can rejoice that we are feeding the
Speaker:hungry. But sometimes we need to do more than that.
Speaker:We need to ask why are there so many more people who
Speaker:are hungry? What's happening that they cannot earn a living
Speaker:and feed their families? Is there a fatal flaw
Speaker:in the current economic system that works against these people being
Speaker:able to make enough money to buy food? Wesley may not
Speaker:have raised the question in exactly that way, but he
Speaker:did set out to both provide immediate relief and
Speaker:work to bring about social change so that the relief
Speaker:would not be necessary. So when we think about
Speaker:scriptural and social holiness,
Speaker:wesley was very much committed
Speaker:to prayer and to piety, but also for
Speaker:Methodists being people who actually did something about the
Speaker:pain that people experience on a regular basis. And I praise God
Speaker:for these two pastors and their ministry
Speaker:and their leadership as we move forward in the United
Speaker:Methodist Church with all of our diversity, with all
Speaker:of our flaws and foibles,
Speaker:god is still using us in mighty ways.
Speaker:Indeed, God is using us in mighty ways. We look forward to Denise and Matt
Speaker:doing just that. And yet, as has been mentioned a couple of times here,
Speaker:we live in anxious times in our world,
Speaker:politically, social, economically. There's wars,
Speaker:there's famine, there's bad stuff happening, there's crime,
Speaker:as we've mentioned here. And yet
Speaker:we also have our challenges in our United Methodist Church and disaffiliation
Speaker:and other things like that. Denise, I'd be interested in how you
Speaker:approach these challenges, both within the
Speaker:church. Maybe you have to deal with folks sometimes who have different feelings
Speaker:or different thoughts about theology or about racial matters
Speaker:or about human sexuality, any number of things that become
Speaker:hot buttons, and that sometimes some people say,
Speaker:hey, why is our church still in UMC? Or things like
Speaker:that. How are you approaching some of these anxious times as
Speaker:you move forward, the next step of your ministry? Denise well,
Speaker:obviously, questions about what is happening
Speaker:not just in society, but in the United Methodist Church.
Speaker:Those questions come up in the church, of course.
Speaker:And I think that my focus has been to simply
Speaker:remind people that we cannot afford to get diverted from our mission.
Speaker:We have a mission to love God and love others,
Speaker:and we can have different
Speaker:opinions when it comes to theological issues as long
Speaker:as the heart of our message is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Speaker:And so my message to my people here
Speaker:at my church, and to those that ask me that
Speaker:question, is we have enough to focus on.
Speaker:It will take all of our time, all of our effort,
Speaker:if we focus on living into the gospel of Christ,
Speaker:if we allow ourselves to be diverted, we allow the message to be
Speaker:diluted. And that's something that we can't afford to do.
Speaker:It doesn't matter what church we're in as a faithful follower of Christ,
Speaker:that's what we're called to do. And so, in our context,
Speaker:we are going to find different ways to love our community. We are going
Speaker:to find different ways to share the love of Christ with our community and
Speaker:the theological issues that where we may have
Speaker:disagreements, will allow that disagreement. And we'll remember
Speaker:that in essentials we maintain our unity,
Speaker:but in all things, we maintain our love. Awesome.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing that. Matt, you have a specific focus in your ministry
Speaker:on youth ministry and of course, youth are
Speaker:when I was in youth ministry, I used to say some people say youth of
Speaker:the future of the church. I would say, no, they're at the church right now.
Speaker:So we are engaged right now with their lives and so on and so forth.
Speaker:But we do live in this world of a lot of distractions and a lot
Speaker:of input, lots of data points coming in,
Speaker:including some of the ones we've mentioned about distractions in the church and
Speaker:society and so on. What you're feeling moving forward,
Speaker:particularly in youth ministry, about how
Speaker:the church can focus on, as Denise said,
Speaker:what is true and what is real. But what are some feelings about this as
Speaker:all these distractions come in?
Speaker:Well, I think these students, particularly what we're seeing right now,
Speaker:is that they're starting to recognize that their phones,
Speaker:especially all these different things, are distractions. And so they're
Speaker:very aware of that. And they're more
Speaker:open maybe than even several years ago, the students.
Speaker:So we're seeing the impact that that has on them.
Speaker:We encourage the kids to take a break and just to stop and
Speaker:notice their surroundings, notice people, spend time
Speaker:with them. They're doing it. And they
Speaker:love to serve, they love to love on
Speaker:people. They are very open minded, very open
Speaker:to all people. And so I'm just encouraged and
Speaker:the ways they listen, the ways they learn, the ways that they want to grow.
Speaker:And you're right, like they are the church now. And that
Speaker:gives me great hope because I see the powerful
Speaker:things that they're doing. So I
Speaker:continue to learn from them in lots of ways.
Speaker:I can't keep up with the social media stuff. It's just constantly
Speaker:changing. But are any of the youth wrapped up at all? And in
Speaker:some of the adult issues regarding disaffiliation or theology
Speaker:or human sexuality or any of that kind of stuff,
Speaker:is this impacting youth ministry? Tell me about that.
Speaker:Yeah, I would say the disaffiliation that
Speaker:I don't think has ever come up with our students.
Speaker:They have so much going on in their lives as it is right now.
Speaker:And as far as human sexuality and
Speaker:all the stuff going on in our society,
Speaker:they see people and they love people and
Speaker:they embrace people for who they are and they meet them for who
Speaker:they are. And so I think that's, again, another model that
Speaker:Jesus did that we try to encourage is to
Speaker:see them people first, to have that relationship.
Speaker:It's easy for us to make broad stereotypes
Speaker:or generalizations about groups of people,
Speaker:but when you're in relationship with someone,
Speaker:maybe that's different than you, that changes everything.
Speaker:They're exposed to a lot of more
Speaker:diverse kind of experiences than I ever was at
Speaker:their age. And again, they just encouraged
Speaker:me and how they just love people. I love
Speaker:what you're saying, but they see people for people.
Speaker:I love that. And I think that's a good message that
Speaker:we can learn from those folks, from the young people.
Speaker:For us, as the church see people as people instead of labels of whatever
Speaker:it would be, where it's a socioeconomic thing or a theology thing or
Speaker:a gender or race or whatever.
Speaker:Bishop I think you've got something else you wanted to mention or ask about
Speaker:to these folks. As we kind of wind down our conversation in the next few
Speaker:minutes, here. What's on your heart that you wanted to share with Madden,
Speaker:with Denise? Well, I think I'd like to ask them
Speaker:to continue to push out the message that
Speaker:God loves all the people that we serve. Man and when you're talking
Speaker:to the young people, if I can't make it to your confirmation class,
Speaker:maybe you'll make sure they get to hear this podcast.
Speaker:But I want young people and all people to know
Speaker:that God loves you, and that's not subject
Speaker:to debate or vote or can't be overturned by the
Speaker:Supreme Court, the judicial Council, the church board,
Speaker:or the school council, for that matter. That's a subtle issue where
Speaker:there's a pastor, retired pastor, retired bishop from the
Speaker:Philippines, Bishop Knoxville, who's written several books about the resurrection.
Speaker:And he got up a few weeks ago at our meeting, we were talking about
Speaker:something I forget about, and he got up, he said,
Speaker:friends, he said, it's been settled. And I
Speaker:was thinking, what is he talking about? It's been settled. He said,
Speaker:you know, we just a few weeks ago, we celebrated Easter.
Speaker:Jesus Christ is risen from the dead.
Speaker:Death has been defeated. Sin has been defeated. We have the
Speaker:victory. So it's settled. Many of the things that we are squabbling
Speaker:about or we may feel bad about, or people may
Speaker:on social media say things about me or
Speaker:you or whoever, they're simply not true because
Speaker:some things have already been settled. So, for example,
Speaker:our sacred worth. And I think young people get this
Speaker:in many cases better than we do, because my experience
Speaker:was maybe a little bit more how
Speaker:can I say? My experience was not nearly as broad or
Speaker:deep as some of the things that young people are experiencing today, particularly with social
Speaker:media. But also there's a lot of negativity that
Speaker:is messaged so quickly that we really need to
Speaker:offset that with the message that God
Speaker:sees us. And I think everybody wants to
Speaker:know this, that it doesn't matter what age you are. People want to know that
Speaker:we care before they care how much we know as
Speaker:pastor Denise said, it's not about our theology,
Speaker:in fact. And if I stumble when I'm doing my Episcopal address,
Speaker:pastor Denise, you go to the microphone and you said something.
Speaker:You said, if our mission is diverted,
Speaker:then the gospel is diluted. Brad, you need to write that down.
Speaker:That sounds like that one might preach that one might preacher that might make.
Speaker:It into the Episcopal address, that might. Make it into your next book,
Speaker:even. I don't know. Well,
Speaker:anyway, I just think that it's important for us to push
Speaker:out the positive. That's the whole purpose of this podcast,
Speaker:because sometimes somebody may need a sign. And Brad's heard
Speaker:me say, this podcast message might be the sign you've been
Speaker:waiting to hear from.
Speaker:God loves you. And Jesus Christ died for our
Speaker:sin. And Jesus said, I've come not to condemn the world, but that the
Speaker:world might be saved through Jesus Christ. Awesome. We use mentioned
Speaker:about being a positive note. The theme of our podcast is
Speaker:to be encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble. So we always like to
Speaker:kind of bring things around to an encouraging word. So,
Speaker:Denise, I would just like to ask you to kind of synopsize
Speaker:a bit of what you are about right now and what is encouraged
Speaker:you right now as we look forward
Speaker:in ministry.
Speaker:Brian, I think what encourages me the most is to see
Speaker:the love of people played out, the grace,
Speaker:the message of grace that the United Methodist Church has to
Speaker:offer. Where I hear us the loudest and where
Speaker:I hear us speak the strongest is when we let people
Speaker:know that God loves them. But more
Speaker:than that, that there's a grace for them and a place for them
Speaker:in our church. And whatever their voice, whatever their
Speaker:gift, that we will embrace that. And to me,
Speaker:that message of inclusivity that
Speaker:we have here in the church is one to be celebrated,
Speaker:that I celebrate. I love that the primacy of grace is
Speaker:not much better than that. Man, I ask you the same thing. What is
Speaker:an encouraging word that you have to share as you enter this
Speaker:next phase of your ministry?
Speaker:Well, like we tell our students, jesus was with
Speaker:his disciples every day for three years,
Speaker:and they still didn't get it, and he was Jesus.
Speaker:And so I just want to encouraged everyone to stay true to
Speaker:the path, to continue to be faithful as
Speaker:Jesus calls us, to be faithful and know that God is with
Speaker:us. And as Bishop says, so often,
Speaker:God loves us and there's nothing we can do about it. So just
Speaker:want to encourage everyone just to share that same love that we've received with
Speaker:all people. Yeah. So grace and faith, those are pretty good encouraging
Speaker:words. Bishop, what kind of encouraging words would you wrap
Speaker:up our conversation with? And then could you have a prayer for us, please?
Speaker:Absolutely. So two Chronicles 714
Speaker:from the New Revised Standard Version if my people who are
Speaker:called by My name will humble themselves and pray, seek my
Speaker:face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven
Speaker:and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Speaker:God has promised to hear our earnest prayers.
Speaker:If we turn our face away from
Speaker:the world and from our own self grandizement
Speaker:and our own self interest, and turn our face towards God
Speaker:and towards the love of God and the love of neighbor, then God
Speaker:will certainly use us and bless us and prepare us
Speaker:for that which is before us. Let us pray. Loving God, we give
Speaker:you thanks and praise for the church, for the
Speaker:Christian church, for the body of Christ,
Speaker:for the United Methodist Church, and for all people who are seeking a sign
Speaker:of forgiveness, a sign of acceptance,
Speaker:a sign of love. May you be that sign through
Speaker:others and use us if you will. O God,
Speaker:take us as we are and make us as you would have us to be,
Speaker:that we might be instruments of your grace,
Speaker:your mercy, your peace, your justice, and most of all,
Speaker:your love, your never ending love. We thank
Speaker:you, God, for these to our friends today,
Speaker:pastor Denise and Pastor Matt and Pastor Brad
Speaker:that we might continue to push out the message of
Speaker:encouragement and that we might be prepared to wake
Speaker:up tomorrow morning and serve the fresh bread of hope to a
Speaker:hungry world. In Jesus name,
Speaker:amen. Amen. Amen. And we thank you for
Speaker:joining us today on the To Be Encouraged
Speaker:podcast. Our special guest today had been Reverend Matt Cheryl,
Speaker:the pastor of youth and discipleship at Carmel United Methodist Church
Speaker:in Carmel, Indiana, an incoming deacon in the United Method
Speaker:Church of Indiana, and Reverend Denise Robinson, the lead pastor
Speaker:at the Irvington United Methodist Church in Indianapolis and
Speaker:incoming elder. This is the To Be Encouraged Podcast,
Speaker:a podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to an
