Using the Forest to Bring People to Christ-The Power and Impact of Outdoor Ministry with Nick Yarde

Brad Miller: 00:00:00

Hello again good people and welcome to the to be in courage podcast. This is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to a dis courage world. This is the podcasts of Bishop Josie tremble the president Bishop of the Indiana area of United Methodist Church and I am your co host, Reverend Dr. Brad Miller. Our guest today on to be encouraged offers his a neat encouraging word because it has to do with some of the most important aspects of ministry, which is camping, outdoor ministries and retreat ministries. His name is Nick yard, and he has a deep connection and camping ministries have a solid fighting he is has a background in natural resources, and in running camps. But now as a director of outdoor ministry, it's with Indiana Conference of The United Methodist Church. And we bishop would you help us welcome Nick yard into our podcast today.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:00:57

Thank you, Nick, for your faithfulness. Over the many years that you've been involved with outdoor ministries, and particularly these last several years during this extended season of COVID. How you have to be you have been innovative and adaptive. But yet not giving up on the mission and ministry of outdoor ministries. I know it's been challenging for you and some, some tough days, particularly, you know, having to, you know, lose and let go staff and that kind of thing, and then kind of rebuild the ministries. So you have been, obviously, in the prayers of many including your bishop here. So I just wanted to say thank you for carving out some time to lift up your your ministry, God's ministry being done through you and others.

Nick Yarde: 00:01:45

Thank you, Bishop, I'm really glad to be here.

Brad Miller: 00:01:48

Indeed, Nick, we're glad to have you with us. And one of the things that fishing while love to do is hear her faith stories, how people come to faith in the first place. And then how that's led them then to what they're doing now in. In ministry, we hear lots of great stories. We'd love to hear your story, Nick, how you came to know Jesus Christ first place and how that led you to outdoor ministries.

Nick Yarde: 00:02:11

Yeah, so I actually grew up in Indiana, I grew up up near Auburn, Indiana, attended church there, I attended church really my whole life that really my first experience with United Methodist Church, though, was actually as a senior in high school. And so that that's, that's really where I had my introduction to the United Methodist Church, but my introduction to the church, I was actually a junior high kid when it's interesting, because it was during a kind of a recommitment of part of our sanctuary at our church, that I decided to make my, my decision I say interesting, because usually the sanctuary and those kinds of things aren't really that important to me, in terms of my faith walk, I don't really,

Nick Yarde: 00:02:56

you know, care a lot about where I worship, obviously, I'm outdoor ministries, and so, but it wasn't that, at that service. You know, we were raising a cross in our sanctuary and doing some other things and I really felt a strong calling to do really just give my life to Christ and, and my mom recognize that prayed with me. So I remember that time clearly.

Nick Yarde: 00:03:20

It was really then, you know, in terms of my my walk with Christ, when I was a junior in high school, trying to decide, you know, what was going to do with the rest of my life and everything I wrote a, I wrote a note that I still have today. And it was basically that I was going to use the resources of the forest to bring people to Christ. And then that was going to be kind of the the thread of my life the and it has everything that I've done, I've worked I've worked in the state parks that I've worked with the Forest Service, I've worked at lots of different county parks and wildlife and forestry and logging. I've always used the resources, the forest as a tool to bring people to Christ and that's that's kind of a thing that's always fit me. So that's kind of my my story in a nutshell.

Nick Yarde: 00:04:07

I got more involved in the United Methodist Church as I was a grad student, I was a grad student at Purdue University and my wife and I became the youth group leaders at Battleground United Methodist and that was really kind of my first

Nick Yarde: 00:04:23

my first taste of of working with the church and working with churches. And so that really, my wife was was always kind of the camp person she encouraged me early on

Nick Yarde: 00:04:34

from from the time before we were married on to really consider a camp as a as a profession. And I got camp people are a little too weird to think about doing that long term and so but but that's really my it was a significant part of my my face story did to just get a chance to work with the youth and really to see firsthand I mean, it's one thing to go to camp and everything but when you come back as a

Nick Yarde: 00:05:00

Counselor when you get a chance to take kids to camp,

Nick Yarde: 00:05:04

man, it really it really solidifies for you the impact that those experiences have on students and how powerful they can be. And so that really kind of direct my life at that time, getting a chance to be at Pine Creek camp really close to Purdue there. And in getting a chance to take students there initially really, really impacted the direction in my later turning to the camp ministry as a profession.

Brad Miller: 00:05:31

That's awesome because I believe for so many folks and Bishop I think you'll agree with this for so when you folks campaign in one form or another has been an integral part of a coming to faith story and a striking to face for I'll just speak to my story very briefly. I came to know Christ at a church camp at what's now known as camp Juanito. Actually back then was known as Brown County camp. And then I subsequently

Brad Miller: 00:05:57

went to camp all through elementary and junior high in high school, and then ended up being on the camp staff as a counselor one summer as a college job and got married. My first marriage was at a church camp, and then I ended up leading

Brad Miller: 00:06:14

dozens of camps and retreats. And that's been important part of my ministry and integral part of that and my own children came to Christ in church camps. So it's very important to me personally, and I think it's a common sentiment among a lot of folks and Bishop. Can you speak to any importance just before we get into it with Vic, any points of Camp type setting in your life? Can you speak to that? Oh, certainly. Certainly. I went to I went camping at Reynolds wood in Dixon, Illinois, which is a Methodist camp in the northern Illinois conference over five decades ago, which means I guess I'm over 21 now.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:06:50

Also also experienced I don't know if you're familiar, Nick, you probably are Brett with Young Life Ministries, young life.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:06:58

So I happen to I went to camp with young life and I also went to United Methodist camp. So I went, went to star ranch in Colorado. I'm an I was an inner city kid from Chicago and you've never been to the forest. So I've never been to the national parks, anything and went went mountain climbing and mud sliding and, you know, a rope, rope bridges and so forth. So camping for me was a very important in, I went camping to at the time, at the time, my father died. I was 13 I think at the time, second time I went to camp, right, not long after where that that summer after he died in January, which was very a pivotal point for me and one of my brothers because the six of us and my, my mother couldn't really afford to send us to camp with, you know, two boys to camp. But the United Methodist Women United Methodist men, they had scholarships that they gave for kids to go to camp. So camping as always, I'm always been a champion. I haven't been, you know, super involved like you guys. But as a both as a pastor and as a district superintendent, and then as a bishop, I've had a chance to speak at speak at camps and

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:08:12

and I and our children had a chance to, to have camping experience when I was when I was a pastor, so I've been a strong advocate. And our two boys were in scouts to grow and our daughter was a Girl Scout. So they all hit y'all hit camp experiences through scouting. So I just been a big advocate for that. Because that even a few days away in campus is like, you know,

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:08:39

Mark of Sunday school or whatever, whenever they you mentioned, Nick is such a great advocate of camping. What do you want to ask him about outdoor ministries and camping in terms of its impact on ministry in the church? Well, I love to I know, Nick, how long have you known how long you've been doing this? I think it's been a few years. But but but the previous previous podcast, we talked about what was encouraging what has been challenging. So what's the encouraging about outdoor ministries? What's been challenging? And you know, how long have you been doing this? And what did does it

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:09:15

Brad and I have testified how it's mattered matters to us, and we kind of Oh, guys now. So does this still matter to children and youth? You know, like you did when we were kids?

Nick Yarde: 00:09:28

Yeah, that was a great question. So I'll start with

Nick Yarde: 00:09:31

how long I've been doing it. I just went through my 32nd summer. And so in that's with United Methodist camping as a paid staff person, so that doesn't include volunteer time or time that I was a youth pastor. So So yeah, that's a while.

Nick Yarde: 00:09:46

And, you know, I think, I think in a lot of ways, the things that have been encouraging have been encouraging that whole time. So one of the one of the reasons I got into camping was just there.

Nick Yarde: 00:10:00

The obvious reality to me of the impact that it had. But as I saw, you know, because I don't, I'm not wanting to live, just by my own experiences, I want to know what other people think about it. And research is again and again, turned up the importance of camping, the camping experience, a mountaintop experience, in the overall spiritual development of students, and, and people in general. Because I know, you know, Bishop and Brad you too, that, that,

Nick Yarde: 00:10:27

you know that most of the people that are going to make a commitment to Christ are going to do it before they turn 18 All the data, there's been at least seven different research projects nationally, that that, that have looked at that and looked at the, the number and they all come up with a similar number. And, and

Nick Yarde: 00:10:44

it is just, you know, it's that time of faith development for students and the time they set the tone spiritually and, and morally for their entire life. And it really is a huge thing. So the encouraging part to me is, is that when I started in ministry, it was a very strong thing. And the research proved it out, what continues to be encouraging to me is those percentages have have continued to increase. So we think, you know, it's been a long time since I was a student, Does it still make the same difference? Just like you just had asked Brad, does it still matter? Does it still making a difference in every piece of research that's come out, and there'll be a couple more coming out in the next year to have shown that, that that percentage of people, so you take the whole population of Christians, particularly in the United States, and you weigh that against the number of students that say, Yes, camp was a significant part of why I became a Christian. And that percentage continues to increase. Likewise, the number of people that go into a ministry as a profession, back in the, you know, the early days of studies, and the you know, what a lot of people would would consider some of the landmark generations, the generation right proceeding. And continuing through World War Two, when you start with that group, there was a significant number of, of clergy, people that made decisions at camp during that time. And it was really kind of astounding to people that so many, so many clergy people at the time identified camp is one of the significant factors and, and kind of steering them towards their profession. Well, what again, what has been encouraging is, is that percentage has increased with every subsequent generation. And so we're in a place now that nearly 80% of everyone that goes into ministry identifies campus, at least one of the significant factors in the making that decision, there's nothing else even close. I mean, it's just astounding, that that camp has that kind of impact when, when really it kind of is a mountaintop experience. It's not something you do every week, or even every year for a lot of people. But it continues to be a huge factor in people making decisions. So to kind of finish that out, you asked me also for challenges. But you know, the the challenge is through the COVID time, you know, how do you

Nick Yarde: 00:13:15

how do you do a ministry that relies on large group gatherings, to continue to do ministry during a pandemic.

Nick Yarde: 00:13:24

And, and that has been a real challenge the The United Methodist Church Indiana conference supported the Camping Ministry through some some hard financial times, we usually raise a really significant percentage of our own budgets through through fees of those that come in without without having that we really had to make some tough decisions, as the bishop alluded to, and really had some time, but the the annual conference really stretched to, to help us get through that that time. And so I guess that's an encouraging thing. The challenge now is, is not just,

Nick Yarde: 00:13:56

you know, recovering and being like we were, but how, you know, just like we've asked in every, every, every generation, how do you reach this generation? And what does the camp ministry in that kind of mountaintop experience look like for them? And that's really the challenge and what we continue to look at.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:14:16

Is there any

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:14:18

I was just thinking about this, Nick, in terms of the

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:14:24

proliferation of technology and the advancement of you know, online platforms and communications, how to Is there is there a new adapting adaptability that's that's facing camping relative you know, people might say, well, I can actually go to Camp virtually now. You know, so do I need do I need to physically actually, you know, go go someplace or, you know, I have a pool in my community I don't need didn't need to go to campus to enter the pool.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:14:53

Of course, you can't, you can't do

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:14:57

canoeing in your pool.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:15:00

Kept, there's still some some reason for it as the the dynamic, I guess the chance that the attractive things and options particularly, maybe more overseas children that have some means but in communities but not just those children

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:15:17

is there been a challenge of people still want to leave home go away, and have the experience given the cost of camping and so forth?

Nick Yarde: 00:15:26

Yeah, I think you've kind of nailed it right there. It's all of that's true camp has continued to prove to be useful. One of the things that we did during the pandemic and some of our some of our related United Methodist camp centers and in the nut throughout the denomination looked at, or tried different sorts of online camp experience to do camp. During the pandemic, we had an opportunity because we were already working with a research agency to do some some study about what was really effective, what were the parts that were effective. And so they, they kind of switched their, their research since we didn't have kids at camp. And they looked for us, they did a lot of survey to kind of help direct us to what kids might do, because one of the things we were working on we're going to rule out was we were going to do an online camp. So what we learned from them, in short, was that 92% of our parents said, we are not sending our kids to one more electronic thing, they need to be somewhere real. And we're going to wait for it. And and that that panned out, we did not do. And we continue to try to communicate with parents and students and things. We tried to continue to work with the youth leaders and ask what we could do How could help. But we didn't really run any kind of electronic or remote camp system. So what happened over the last two years is the students have come back and the younger the student, the stronger they've come back, so our elementary attendance last year was well ahead of what it was in 2019 the the downside to that is the is the Senior High, the older the kids get the the less, they're kind of working their way back, I think, for us for our ministry and for the church as a whole. Um, it was good to see the number of students at the elementary age coming back. And for those reasons, the the wanting the real kind of hands on stuff, wanting LifeTouch wanting to pull away from electronics, and wanting real relationships. And those things are, are critical to the faith process. And so to have that going, has been very good. But trying to get the generations Well, I know one of the things that have held some Senior High students, and in some of our volunteers from coming back has been they got behind in school, we had lots of staff people end up that people that were committed to come to summer, and work on staff this last year, we had many of them, almost a third of them end up having to go to summer school to catch up their education and unable to go so there's different dynamics and and I think that a lot of the things that we know of his camp, like like you said, the swimming pool in the in the worship times and everything are still critical and critical that critical ingredients. Um, there are other things for older students that we've got to continue to find. And we may, we may have to, we may have to reach even harder to some of those particularly Senior High students and say, how do we get them on staff? Or how do we get them on volunteer and, and things like that to do some of the things that that they're looking for? So hope that answers your question. I just wanna say I'm heartened by one thing to hear right now, that's gotta want to interject this, and that is when you said that, that parents are really looking for the real life experience, you know, you just, you just can't do a campfire through a screen, you can't see the stars, you know, the real stars through a screen or through your headphones or experience or through your headphones. You can kind of get a facsimile of that, but you can't have the real thing and you can't have the interchange, you know, of talking to your somebody in your tent, you know, late at night about things that matter. You just can't have that electronically. And I'm so encouraged to hear parents are saying that, so interject interject that bishop, what else do you want to ask Nick about regarding

Brad Miller: 00:19:20

outdoor ministries?

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:19:22

So where are we now in terms of outdoor ministries? I know, you know, you say we don't, we don't avoid some of the challenging questions is well, you know, with the reality of disaffiliation and, and just the shifting away often from

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:19:40

sometimes enthusiastic support for all of the institutions in society and related to the church. Sometimes there's a weakening of support, but I often often say one of the correlations to the strength of outdoor ministries are availability of scholarships, and avail

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:20:00

ability of people to actually work at the camps. It's a totally different situation. When I was going to camp a lot of times the pastors in summer, the pastors would volunteer for a week or two weeks to be camp counselors, you know, now with, you know, was a much more extensive background check and preparation. But you don't have you don't have camp staff in place where people just send all you have to do as you send your kids.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:20:27

I think some of that place, but a lot of it has to do with how do you have properly staffed and properly promoted, and then properly supported Camping Ministry so that the children all to no one can not go to camp, but I believe that in terms of Indiana, no child should not be able to go to camp because they couldn't pay. But

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:20:48

maybe you could speak to that, you know, given the challenges of SIFT sifting away ups of different support for it for institutions. And my belief is that the camps aren't just specifically for, for, you know, a lot of a lot of the revenue isn't just based from our congregations. It's the use of the camps, themselves in adults retreat as well. But, you know, scholarships, and, you know, the challenges of disaffiliation.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:21:20

And actually, camping being different, you know, then it was maybe Brandon, did you recall, you know, pastors, a lot of the pastors were counselors during the summer, kind of expect someone Ricard to

Brad Miller: 00:21:37

respond to this.

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:21:40

Question.

Nick Yarde: 00:21:42

Yeah, there's

Bishop Julius Trimble: 00:21:47

I think it's picking everyone lean into that. Okay. Okay. Well, let me let me start with

Nick Yarde: 00:21:54

cost. It's expensive to go to camp. There's no doubt about it. It is getting more expensive all the time. You know, this time, we saw some of our on some of our menus for, for instance, increases of 40%. And what it costs to feed kids for the week. That's, that's real. I mean, that's just real. There's no, there's no avoiding that. And so how do we how do we care for support students that want to come? And and I guess the answer that I have to that is the way we always have, from the standpoint of a lot of our churches are very generous. We have churches that that raise a significant or all of the cost of camp, to send kids in in some of those send way more kids than they have in their church. Occasionally, I get a church that,

Nick Yarde: 00:22:43

that reaches out and says, Hey, we raised you know, this much money in in camp scholarships, which means we got you know, $5,000 leftover, do you know of kids that need it? And yeah, the answer is always yes. Right. So so that's a, that's a significant thing. And again, our churches have been very generous and very supportive in terms of getting kids to camp, there's still, the vast majority of kids that come to camp still come for a fraction of what it actually costs. So right off the bat, and a lot of people don't recognize this, either. But right off the bat, and it says this in some of our registration stuff, if you go to registration register kid, you'll see that the the United Methodist support of the Camping Ministry knocks 200 bucks off the cost right away. So without the your portion dollars, the the tight dollars, camp would already cost 200 bucks more a week for the average kid than it does. So right off the bat. That's that's huge support. But like I said, most of our churches, many that can and some that really can't make that that support, double it or triple it. So that we have a significant number of churches that pay near all of the cost of camp so that that's really huge.

Nick Yarde: 00:23:57

Cost continues to rise, you know, insurance always gets more expensive. All of that. So I don't think there's anything surprising about any of that. Let me let me turn to staffing though. You mentioned a couple of things about staffing. This was a tough year for staffing. At the start of summer, we had 30

Nick Yarde: 00:24:17

unfulfilled summer camp positions, which made it extremely tight everywhere. It was a really volunteers that stepped up in in in covenant covered a lot of that gap.

Nick Yarde: 00:24:31

And it was you know, people that that had normally Yeah, I'll give one week of camp ended up getting two or three or four. You know, and I, it amazes me some of these people that that have given their time in this way. You know, you look at young professionals, some of which only get two weeks of vacation, and they're using both of them now. To to come to camp and minister to students. That just blows my mind. I just think how do people get

Nick Yarde: 00:25:00

Have a debt like I only have two weeks off the whole year, and I'm going to I'm going to invest in students with that time. That's amazing. And that's that's the people in our churches right there.

Nick Yarde: 00:25:09

So, I mean, yeah, it'd be a mess, not that not to, to just, again, say thank you, thank you to the volunteers. Because in a normal summer, it takes us about a solid 800 to 900 people willing to volunteer in a cabin with the kids. So that's nobody that helps mow the grass or get the places ready or do the cleaning or cook the food, or that's just people willing to spend the time to be a counselor. And that's a lot of people, right? I mean, not just a lot of people, where do you get, you know, 100 plus people willing to come and give a week of their time and in and let's be honest, it's not easy stand for a week in a cabin with junior high kids. I did it this summer.